elwinfortuna | Fannish Fifty #2: 7 Warning Signs of Fannish Scammers, Grifters, & Toxic People

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Fannish Fifty #2: 7 Warning Signs of Fannish Scammers, Grifters, & Toxic People

Over my roughly 23 years in fandom, I've witnessed a number of scam artists, grifters, and otherwise bad actors within fandom. I've had the good fortune, but also the wariness and caution, to not be taken in by these people. So today, for my second Fannish50, I'm going to talk about signs of scam artists and other kinds of grifters, gaslighters, and toxic people in fandom that have become apparent to me over the years and have helped me avoid them.

First of all, I would like to very much stress, these people are absolutely the minority in fandom. Most people in fandom are great! Most people are more or less honest, non-manipulative, and decent. Even if you have a falling-out with someone, it doesn't mean that person is a scam artist, a grifter, or otherwise trying to manipulate you. The vast majority of arguments and fights have very little to do with this; sometimes people just don't get on, for whatever reason, and have to walk away from each other.

And that brings me to the first big warning sign that you might be dealing with a fandom scam artist or grifter: they keep popping up. They don't walk away; they can't share a space without trying to take it over, they re-emerge under different names and try the same thing again, they use sockpuppets to either provide an echo chamber for themselves or to spy on you (or both). They might try both berating you for not listening to them and also accusing you of stalking them, seemingly without recognising the contradiction. They starve without attention and desperately try to get it by any means necessary.

The second big warning sign (and this one is huge), their life is constant drama. Yes, of course, real people have difficult and sometimes tumultuous lives, but what we're talking about here is next-level. They always need money for some reason or another. They're always just at the brink of starvation or being kicked out, while conspicuously spending in other areas of their life. This might take the form of begging for money to pay their rent but then the next month showing off fannish merch they bought, or straight up just begging for the fannish merch while in the next breath talking about how bare their cupboards are and how they might starve. This can sometimes be a delicate line to tread, because, yes, good people can struggle for money and also want fannish merch, but the key to it being a scam artist is that it happens over and over and over, and they never seem to sort their lives out. Sometimes these people end up effectively being financially supported by kind fans who just want to help.

The third warning sign is, and this could be a bit controversial, that they seem disconnected from reality in some way. I'm absolutely not saying that everyone who follows an unusual religion or roleplays is this by any means. But people like this take it too far; they claim that they are truly in contact with a fictional character or a celebrity, or they incorporate fandom or media into their religion in a way that suggests they're taking fandom a bit more seriously than the hobby it should be. Claiming that the fictional universe they're writing fanfiction for really exists and they are hearing the voice of their favourite character through a dimensional portal telling them the stories they write, or claiming that they are the fictional character in another life, that sort of thing. ("Kinning" the way it's used in fandom these days is honestly a yellow flag for me and if they take it any more seriously than "I identify with or relate to this character," it's a red flag.)

The fourth warning sign is that although they may be charming at first or nice to you, they are mean-spirited, cruel, and vindictive. When they talk about former friends or exes, they never have a nice word to say about them. If your own relationship with them sours, you'll notice that they start to say bad things about you, when initially they couldn't find a fault with you. They're bitter, they don't seem to care what damage they do, and it's always everyone else's fault. They tell you that everyone they knew before you abused them or rejected them. They have a very black-and-white sort of attitude about people and about life in general. People are either good or bad, no in-between, have treated them poorly (everyone in the past) or treated them well (you, while you're still in favour). When you're with them, you feel anxious and stressed after the initial charm and excitement of the friendship wears off. When the relationship breaks down, everyone who sides with or agrees with your view of things suddenly becomes your minion, as if people have no ability to make up their minds on their own. They are the central character in their own world, and it revolves around them. People they don't feel anything about (whether love or hate) don't matter.

The fifth big warning sign is that if and when you confront them about any bad behaviour, or in some cases, try to make even the smallest request that they change their behaviour, they DARVO. DARVO means "deny, attack, reverse victim and offender," and this is exactly what they do. Remember, it's never their fault: they deny every bit of misbehaviour on their own part. It's always your fault: they turn around and attack you, and they make out that they are the victim and you're the offender instead of the other way around. They can sometimes be quite overwhelming, forceful, and persuasive about this. Their aim is to make you believe you're in the wrong, and make everyone else believe it too.

The sixth warning sign is that you feel trapped in the relationship and never given any space. They're talking at you constantly, having mental health crises that only you can help with, and interrupting things going on in your real life because they need your help NOW despite the fact that you might not even know where they live or their wallet name. I absolutely get wanting to talk to a friend a lot and it's great if the energy is mutual, but they have a habit of consistently crossing your boundaries and being far too demanding for the sort of relationship you have. Internet friendships and relationships can be amazing and wonderful; my own history of meeting my husband, my ex-girlfriend, and so many many beloved friends online shows this, but you should not feel obligated to "be there" all the time for someone you haven't met in person who is many timezones away, and who you might not know that much about. It's genuinely saved my mental health so much to learn to set gentle boundaries with myself regarding how much I'll get involved in any situation, depending on how well I know the person.

And the seventh warning sign is that they just feel "off." Your gut feels wrong about them. This, in all honesty, has been the best indicator to me over the years of who to invite in and who to avoid. I'm not sure that this is true of everyone, but be aware of what your instincts, your guts, are saying about a person. If your instincts are telling to back off or stay away, listen to them, or at the very least, proceed with caution.

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Your post deserves a detailed response, but as a fellow cautious observer, mind if I just ask where I can sign (and if I signal-boost in my next rec post)?

Absolutely feel free to signal-boost!

These particular warning signs are shockingly consistent throughout all the fandom scams I've witnessed over the years. It's really interesting how it's always the same playbook, no matter how different the individual.

These particular warning signs are shockingly consistent throughout all the fandom scams I've witnessed over the years. It's really interesting how it's always the same playbook, no matter how different the individual.

That struck me as well (and it was what made me so sure our fellow fans had in fact been taken in by such an individual).

Precisely.

One of the biggest tells for me is someone being cruel toward other fans, especially people they've fallen out with. A little griping behind friendslock or trying to explain what's happened, that's normal, that's fine, but being vicious and mean towards them years on, that's a sure sign of a toxic person.

One of the biggest tells for me is someone being cruel toward other fans, especially people they've fallen out with. A little griping behind friendslock or trying to explain what's happened, that's normal, that's fine, but being vicious and mean towards them years on, that's a sure sign of a toxic person.

Agreed! One of my red flags is when people persistently treat other people as only valuable when they do something for them, when these others act as the scammer wants them to act. To me, that fits into a larger pattern with fannish grifters: they are the deities of the universe - whether real or fictional. The rest of us are non-player characters.

Also, as a sidenote: you had a brush with Thatfucker? I only know the stories, but... my sympathies!

Well you know I am nodding. All of these apply. Not sure about the fandom merch but otherwise, all spot-on.

And my instinct was right all along, I just overrode it, feeling sorry for them 😩

Not sure about the fandom merch

Each time I've witnessed this sort of thing happening, it's shaken out slightly differently in a financial sense. Thanfiction wanted to put on events because he wanted contact with celebrities, other grifters I've seen basically made it their day job to squeeze money out of fandom with begging, whether for money or merch or whatnot. Usually there is some element of money or gifts involved, but sometimes what the person is grifting for is just attention and sympathy; these are usually the ones who fake their deaths or seemingly have other tragic things happen to them all the time. More recently, I've seen cases of people faking their race or their disabilities for attention, sympathy, donations, etc.

Oh god, I’ve hear about the race-faking and disability faking too :(

And yes, I think they want the attention, these people, which is why they go so ballistic when it’s removed.

On tumblr, I used to see the kind of posts that made sure to check all the possible victim boxes to attract sympathy. Hell no way I'm going to send money to a random of the internet who pretends to be a half-Black Jewish Yemeni, half-Otomi disabled gay trans man whose parents are about to kick him out of the house and leave him to be eaten by the jaguars of the streets of Veracruz, and what-have-you.

I think (for me) the being scammed for money was less important than the abuser wanting to feed on ‘me’, like Ungoliant. Time, stories, thoughts and characters that all took many years to develop, the emotional abuse, the ‘energy vampire’ aspect, being deceived and used all matter more.

Yes I’d have liked to have done something more useful with the money but you never know if the charity aid posts on Tumblr are real or not either; you just make a judgement call and the shame is theirs if they are con artists. I sold things on Ebay to send money so I didn’t leave myself short, but I’d rather have given it to a genuine charity.

The sad part of this story is that those people are so deceived by themselves they make it genuine, and the other party, who's trapped, passes for the bad guy if they refuse to contribute (or if they want to walk away).

but you never know if the charity aid posts on Tumblr are real or not either
Ya, that's why I don't send my money on tumblr at all and prefer to donate to places I've been to irl.

I remember someone in a fandom community who was like this- she was always asking for commissions because of being short of money, but buying large quantities of merch. (I made the mistake of buying one of her extra pieces of merch once, which opened me up to further requests for money.)

I’m so sorry.
It’s very difficult isn’t it? Because so many people genuinely are in need but there are others who really take advantage.

You know, this is just straight-up good advice for life!

Yes, this.

Very true! I wanted to put it in an online and fannish context because fandom is where I've seen most of this behaviour but it can definitely happen in any organisation or community. I'm sure this has happened in activism spaces, in workplaces, in religious organisations, in community associations, on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, any website you can name where people talk, at some point someone is going to come along and try this.

Man, I wish I'd had this fifteen years ago lololol. I've found this all to be very true in IRL friendships as well.

Tell me about it. <3

Yep. :/

They tell you that everyone they knew before you abused them or rejected them. They have a very black-and-white sort of attitude about people and about life in general. People are either good or bad, no in-between, have treated them poorly (everyone in the past) or treated them well (you, while you're still in favour). When you're with them, you feel anxious and stressed after the initial charm and excitement of the friendship wears off.

Good grief, I wish I could give past-me a good shake!

Thank you for posting this. It's all spot on, but most especially the last point. Ah well - once bitten, several times shy...

*hugs* It can be hard to learn to listen to your instincts, because they warn you off before you've consciously noticed the warning signs, so you're telling yourself things like "I shouldn't judge" or "that's just their sense of humour" or "they're having a hard time."

It's important to note that these people also try their hardest to be charming and friendly while they're 'courting' you, so this can sometimes trip your senses up, like "why am I getting a bad vibe about this person who's being so nice to me?"

It's worth being cautious and careful, of course, and I've personally never had a situation where my initial negative instincts about somebody turned out to be wrong, but I would also not rely solely on instinct alone. I would always like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Though I have been in situations where I have initial bad vibes about someone, then they do something that falls into this list of warning signs, and I nope out of there so fast you can see the dust cloud. My acquaintance with the person who became known as Thanfiction basically went like that: first pseudo-suicide and I was out of there.

I wish I could give myself a big slap round the ear!

This brings back memories of the Ms Scribe debacle - i think that one hits all 7. Not mention that strange person who pulled huge long con in LoR - channelling Elijah Wood or something?

Thanfiction, yeah, him

Very good advice, both in fandom and in general, I would say!

Thank you for posting this.

I'm not sure if you were around for the Roisin debacle, but many of those points are familiar from that alone. I wish there was a way to ensure these people were easily found out and shunned.

Oh yes, I spent weeks talking to her ‘boyfriend after she ‘died’. 🙄
Personally I’ve only come across three in the Tolkien fandom as I wasn’t in te same spaces as Victoria Bitter/Andy Blake/Thanfiction when they were active.
Roisin, someone I knew from 05-07 who claimed she was Legolas wife reborn as mortal and the current one, so in 18-odd years that’s not many. But one is too many!

So did I. And I was one of the first people she friended in her third persona, the one that seemed to be a completely new person unconnected with Roisin/Eli; that one had red flags for me from the start of her few active days because she'd told me she was a Star Wars writer who couldn't post on a specific archive anymore because it was gone, but I knew it was still up!

Roisin was the first for me as I also wasn't in Tolkien fandom when Thanfiction was active; there was also someone who hung out in the SWG Discord and got kicked out for abusing people but I don't remember if they were at this level.

One is definitely too many.

that one had red flags for me from the start of her few active days because she'd told me she was a Star Wars writer who couldn't post on a specific archive anymore because it was gone, but I knew it was still up!

Is this the one that had the same verbal ‘ticks’ that Roisin did?

Yup.

I remember, and Dawn posted about it. The verbal ticks often are red flags when people use fake or sock accounts. They always seem to sound weirdly the same.

Great post! (Came here via a link from

narya_flame.) And definitely also relevant outside of fandom.

The fifth big warning sign is that if and when you confront them about any bad behaviour, or in some cases, try to make even the smallest request that they change their behaviour, they DARVO. DARVO means "deny, attack, reverse victim and offender," and this is exactly what they do. Remember, it's never their fault: they deny every bit of misbehaviour on their own part. It's always your fault: they turn around and attack you, and they make out that they are the victim and you're the offender instead of the other way around. They can sometimes be quite overwhelming, forceful, and persuasive about this. Their aim is to make you believe you're in the wrong, and make everyone else believe it too.

...uh. Yeah. Fuck.

Thanks very much for posting this. (Also came via Narya's rec.)

Although I've been fortunate to not experience any nastiness in fandom so far, these points are all relevant outside it as well.

And even though it's long after the fact, receiving this insight nonetheless adds to the things that are helpful in recognising the harmful remnants, clearing out the gaslighting muck left behind and healing the insidious self-doubt.

A good list. I think most of the descriptions apply to RL people too, and it's good to remember that toxic people are around in all walks of life, not just the web. A lot of harsh things are said about the web, but RL can be just as bad. (That said, I acknowledge that the web makes it easier, because they can stay more or less anonymous.)

I'm getting Msscribe flashbacks from this.

Also, I feel like most of those apply to people in real life too. A very good guide overall!

Coming in to read via Spiced_Wine's boost. Thank you for writing such a detailed and thoughtful post, which of course applies to everyday life too.

This is such a great post, and great advice that'll hopefully help people keep themselves safe... Adding it to my dreamwidth memories. Thank you for writing this.

Thank you for this! (I found this from Narya-Flame's post.)

I have seen aspects of this behavior before, but this is a good list of warnings in one place. It is also a good mirror to hold up to myself of "how not to be unpleasant" myself.

Thanks for a helpful summary, I'm here from vriddy's link, and have seen similar in other areas

Here via a rec from Spiced. Thanks for a helpful and insightful post.

I used to feel guilty about not responding when someone I knew in my first fandom would be posting pleas for money. I nearly succumed a couple of times but something just felt 'off' about the posts and the person. I wish I;d read this then. It would have alleviated a lot of stress and guilt.

And I'm horrified at what some people have gone through reading the comments here.

Thank you again!

Thank you, Elwin!

A huge eye opener.

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Fannish Fifty #2: 7 Warning Signs of Fannish Scammers, Grifters, & Toxic People

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