elwinfortuna: Rainbow Fëanorian star, surrounded by text: "through sorrow to find joy." (Default)
Elwin ([personal profile] elwinfortuna) wrote2023-01-06 10:08 am

Snowflake Challenge #3

Challenge #3: In your own space, Scream Into the Void. Get it all out.

I've been in fandom for a very long time -- over half my life, and I've seen fandom (by which I mostly mean fanworks-style fandom) go from a sort of niche hobby to being more or less mainstream. And while that's good in some ways, it's also made things very difficult in others. Fanfiction, in some places and in some ways, feels more like being a "content producer" like some hideous Instagram influencer or Youtuber than it feels like just writing whatever randomness you think is fun or enjoyable today. There seems to be a lot of pressure to focus on stats, feedback, how well you're "performing," comparing yourself to others, etc, etc.

I hate all of this. Comparing stats is a game best not played, and dwelling too much on stats is a surefire route to depression no matter what they are. My own favourite stories aren't my most popular ones, they're the ones that I reread after some time and think, "yeah, I did good with that one!" As someone who writes all kinds of different stories, there are times I value getting just a couple of kudos on a femslash rarepair more than I value getting tons of kudos on a very popular m/m ship.

I want to make people happy (for values of "happy" that can sometimes mean crying buckets) with what I write, and the numbers on that don't really matter. Just as long as I make someone happy, just one person is enough. So my view on stats is: I get my kudos email and it makes me happy. I get a comment and it makes me happy (well, assuming it's a nice comment). I check my stats every now and again, usually when it comes up in memes.

I view fanfic as playtime, as an opportunity to explore and mess around and experiment. I have very few headcanons, ships, or perspectives that I see as set in stone, and I'm always pushing at my own boundaries in terms of what I'll both read and write. Sometimes I find out I don't particularly want to write certain kinds of fic, but I'm always glad I tried. I've written experiences from my own life in a fictionalised format, things I would love to try but are impossible, things I wouldn't ever do, and things I find morally repugnant in real life.

I strongly feel there should be very few limits on what a person can write about. I wouldn't necessarily want to read certain things, but I'll defend to the death a person's right to write them. Ultimately what matters is, is it well-written? What a person writes about in fiction is not reflective of their real-world moral viewpoint, and honestly one of the worst ideas floating around fandom today is a belief by some people (usually very young people) that it is.

Fictional people should not be treated like real people, and real people should not be treated like fictional people. One of the biggest problems fandom has right now is this tendency to attack real people, real authors or artists, because they've created something that "harms" a fictional person. Antis* dismiss the pain that they are causing to real human beings in favour of getting upset about the "pain" a fictional character might be in, and that is absolutely the wrong way around.

Fictional characters are fictional; ultimately they don't matter, they are toys, dolls. Fictional characters are there to be played with. I cannot fathom valuing them over a real person, cannot imagine causing harm to a person because of what they created, no matter how distasteful I might find it.






*Antis: people who are opposed to others writing certain kinds of stories or creating certain kinds of art, usually involving dark topics such as rape, incest, or underage sex. Antis attack and harass creators, and have driven some people to self-harm or suicide.
narya_flame: Young woman drinking aperol in Venice (Default)

[personal profile] narya_flame 2023-01-06 12:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Fanfiction, in some places and in some ways, feels more like being a "content producer" like some hideous Instagram influencer or Youtuber than it feels like just writing whatever randomness you think is fun or enjoyable today.

Ugh, yes, this.

What a person writes about in fiction is not reflective of their real-world moral viewpoint, and honestly one of the worst ideas floating around fandom today is a belief by some people (usually very young people) that it is.

Totally agree. And, despite the fact that it's often people who would LOUDLY dispute that they are in *any way* right wing or influenced by Christian ideology...it's just Puritanical bullshit in another guise.
spiced_wine: (Fireheart)

[personal profile] spiced_wine 2023-01-06 12:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I strongly feel there should be very few limits on what a person can write about. I wouldn't necessarily want to read certain things, but I'll defend to the death a person's right to write them. Ultimately what matters is, is it well-written?

I completely agree. All I care about is the writing.

I have no patience with antis. Fiction to me was always separate from life, possibly because I grew up in the age when fiction/ entertainment was books or the t.v. which was only switched on in the evenings, or the radio I suppose and there were very clear demarcation lines. It’s not like that today but I still have those sharp lines.
dancing_serpent: (Default)

[personal profile] dancing_serpent 2023-01-06 12:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I try to disable stats or make them invisible wherever I can, and I only get comments mailed. Much less pressure for me that way.

Fictional characters are fictional; ultimately they don't matter, they are toys, dolls. Fictional characters are there to be played with. I cannot fathom valuing them over a real person, cannot imagine causing harm to a person because of what they created, no matter how distasteful I might find it.

All of this, so much!
elayna: (McDanno got your back)

[personal profile] elayna 2023-01-06 01:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel that deserves a hearty “here, here.”

I have somehow managed to not be around antis, I guess I’m not in the fandoms that appeal to them, but I see what I take to be their influence in warnings sometimes. They seem really annoying and strange.
alexcat: (Default)

[personal profile] alexcat 2023-01-06 02:27 pm (UTC)(link)
You hit the nail on the head!

I have been fortunate enough not to run into antis for the most part, but they have affected fandom by adding bullying to the mix. In the last few months, they have attempted in some measure to take over Ao3 and introduce censorship. I can't see what's wrong with 'don't like it, don't read it' but they seem to need someone else to be their morality police for them.
sauronnaise: Black haired young man with a dark red cloak (Default)

[personal profile] sauronnaise 2023-01-06 03:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Some do get hooked on numbers on AO3 and measure their self-worth based on said numbers, which is the best recipe to kill the fun, really. I sometimes see discussions on the sort on Reddit, people who once wanted more comments, more kudos, more hits, until they realised it was an unhealthy approach and re-evaluated why they write stories. I can see how people fall into this, especially in bigger fandoms.

What a person writes about in fiction is not reflective of their real-world moral viewpoint, and honestly one of the worst ideas floating around fandom today is a belief by some people (usually very young people) that it is.
Yup. Agreed. My motto is 'Don't like, don't read'. I can't be bothered to waste time on what doesn't interest me, then to play the purity police. Scrolling past or clicking on the X button doesn't require me to cut my leg off. I saw 'X and Y are problematic!' and really, if it were all sunshine and rainbows, there'd be no compelling story, and it's a no-brainer that the author isn't pro-mass murder irl (I'd hope so, at least).

I can't comprehend the mental gymnastics of a purity police from a fandom which original content is full of dark topics. Just change fandoms idk lol
seleneheart: (Boondock Saints)

[personal profile] seleneheart 2023-01-06 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
My own favourite stories aren't my most popular ones, they're the ones that I reread after some time and think, "yeah, I did good with that one!"

So much this! And the reverse - some of my stories that make me cringe are my most popular ones.

I personally have worked through some very dark stuff in my writing, but that's all it was - me working through it. Everyone has the right to do that, and no one can know what a fanfic author might be going through. Antis are the worst.
obstinatecondolement: Deanna Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation shown from the shoulders up, standing in front of a painting of a planet (Default)

[personal profile] obstinatecondolement 2023-01-06 03:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Fictional people should not be treated like real people, and real people should not be treated like fictional people

Oh my god, this! I'm so sick of people treating real people like garbage because of their beefs over fake people.
independence1776: Drawing of Maglor with a harp on right, words "sing of honor lost" and "Noldolantë" on the left and bottom, respectively (Default)

[personal profile] independence1776 2023-01-06 06:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I want to co-sign this. Hate the "content" mindset; hate that people think fictional characters are more important that real people. Fandom is sometimes a toxic stew right now and there's no easy way to clean it up.
corvidology: Ophelia and goldfish (Default)

[personal profile] corvidology 2023-01-06 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
My offline mates call me the human jukebox so I have to link to Make Someone Happy. :D

*stands up and applauds*
brightly_lit: (Default)

[personal profile] brightly_lit 2023-01-07 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
This is along the lines of what I ranted about, too, and you expressed it quite eloquently. I agree 100%, particularly about how comparing ones' stats to others' is a recipe for depression "no matter what they are."

Also that there should be very few limits on what people can write about. That was the best thing about fandom for me, when I first found it--so freeing, to have my world expanded, as I saw people writing about ANYTHING. True freedom of speech, so beautiful, and before the antis and other haters came, it produced nothing but warm fuzzies for everyone involved. The ability to separate fiction from reality is paramount! Where would we be as a society if we didn't have the ability to explore in fiction that which MUSTN'T be explored in real life?

Great post--I'm glad I read it. :-)
nev_rbett_r: (Default)

[personal profile] nev_rbett_r 2023-01-07 03:56 am (UTC)(link)
My own favourite stories aren't my most popular ones, they're the ones that I reread after some time and think, "yeah, I did good with that one!"
Just as long as I make someone happy, just one person is enough.


I agree wholeheartedly! Sometimes the person I'm trying to make happy is myself and everyone else is icing on the cake. Sometimes I'll create something tailor made for a giftee and that's a fun challenge for me too - additional icing when giftee notices the details I put in just for them <3
elwendell: (Default)

[personal profile] elwendell 2023-01-07 10:51 am (UTC)(link)
I think I agree with just about every point in this. For me, fanfic is about exploring...whether the source events or my own life events. I have been free of much toxic fandom, probably because I write gen., but I cannot understand the mindset that insists on book burning instead of just moving on.
jane_ways: (Default)

[personal profile] jane_ways 2023-01-07 04:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes to all this! Of course stories can be harmful or perpetuate bigotry or whatever, but antis never seen to be able to distinguish between "perpetuating bigotry" and "literally anything moderately unpleasant happening." As an English professor it makes my head explode!! This is just not that hard!

Very much agree also on the "content creator" thing. It makes my skin crawl. Same with "consuming media." It takes no less economy of language to say, for example, "engaging (with) entertainment/media/art/etc." I think it reflects a very capitalist mindset and also a strangely passive one: "content" is there to be "consumed," rather than (in fandom, anyways) communities engaged with and sustained.
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[personal profile] shipperslist 2023-01-07 06:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Fanfiction, in some places and in some ways, feels more like being a "content producer" like some hideous Instagram influencer or Youtuber than it feels like just writing whatever randomness you think is fun or enjoyable today. There seems to be a lot of pressure to focus on stats, feedback, how well you're "performing," comparing yourself to others, etc, etc.

Also: keeping updates hostage until a certain number of comments, shares, notes, kudos, whatever.

I disabled my kudos email ages ago and some months ago changed from comment notification emails to comments landing on my AO3 inbox because I realized just how much especially the kudos email notif affected me.
silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)

[personal profile] silveradept 2023-01-09 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
The metrics are nice when I want to look and remind myself that there have been people looking and commenting, but I don't want to get caught in a situation where I start trying to do things for the applause. It's supposed to be fun for me, if it stops being fun, then I should stop doing it until it is fun again.

And the conflation of what a person writes for fiction and what they believe for reality is one of the worst things spreading through fandom. If you can't imagine in fiction, everyone's worlds become so much smaller.
Edited 2023-01-09 00:03 (UTC)
sunshine304: (CQL - WangXian)

[personal profile] sunshine304 2023-01-09 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I also try not to get hung up on statistics. I was kind of disappointed with the reception for my latest fic and really had to actively tell myself that it didn’t really matter because we never can know what might take off as a story with readers and what might not. I at least know that I’m not a bad writer – not the greatest, the most evocative, the most tug-at-your-heartstrings one, but still good.

On the other hand, I was really happy when my second CQL fic hit 1k kudos, that was great! XD So I try to find a good balance of just being happy about everyone who leaves kudos or comment and not worry about how many people that are.

Overall, I think many fans are so focused on stats because of twitter, tiktok, Instagram which don’t care about anything else but views and likes. So this tends to spill over to fanworks, too, even though they can’t really be measured like this. I mean, I’m sure we all know a fic that has an unbelievable number of kudos and where we go, “meh”. XD

The antis and the whole purity culture thing are awful and I hate it! I haven’t personally had to deal with antis, but I see glimpses now and then and I just don’t get it. Why obsess so much over something you hate? They usually hide behind “Think of the children”, because that’s the argument to beat all arguments of course, but a 16 y.o. is actually indeed old enough to decide what they want to read and whether they want to risk braving those tags or not! >_<

I also have tropes and stuff that I don’t like (nothing triggers me, but there are squicks) but damn, I don’t care if someone else likes them! What we enjoy reading/watching and what we want to see happen in real life are very different things! Used to be a time when fans understood that…
Edited 2023-01-09 17:59 (UTC)
vriddy: Two cups of coffee on a tray (friendship)

[personal profile] vriddy 2023-01-18 08:17 am (UTC)(link)
I'm really sad to see the stats-focused culture become so prevalent in fandom as well, and how people make themselves sick with comparisons or keeping a regular posting schedule, constantly promoting, everything they feel they "have" to do because you gotta "drive engagement" and it's just... it's so not fun to me. I hide a lot of the stats on AO3, and I've withdrawn from platforms that centre on numbers (retweets, likes, prominent follower counts, etc) and I think that's done me good (for me personally). If I write something stupid that makes the two people who understand the joke laugh, I have absolutely won :D :D

And then when you combine people trying to get the maximum amount of visibility and reach, with the anti environment... It all just makes people so anxious. I also see fandom and fanfic as playtime! This is meant to be fun.